Relays

Today, I finally got around to working on the wiring of my car. Some while ago, I had ripped out all of the aftermarket wiring done on my car (done by me 3 years ago) because I wanted to clean up the wiring work and make a few changes. Exactly how all the added systems and controllers are wired together on my car is something I may discuss some other time (if there is any interest in that) but here's what 2 out of 4 pages of dog283-made wiring diagram for it all looks like;

Anyway... The topic for today is Relays. Those magical little black things that are a substantial part of most modern automotive electrical system. I use a lot of them in my car. Not counting the original wiper motor relay that the car still uses, 22 will be going in to this current build. Which, is quite a lot for a car that runs carbs and has no audio system or A/C.

I have them in 3 clumps, 2 in the engine bay, and one in the trunk and a few scattered around the car.

Most car enthusiasts with a fair bit of working knowledge know what a relay is, but when I chat with people about the technical aspects, not too many really understand how they work or what exactly they do. Most just know that they are 'needed' so today let's have a little closer look at what exactly a relay does and maybe you can get an idea why I use lots of them.

First, what is a relay. it is basically a switch controlled by a small electromagnet. There are two types of relay switch; Normally Open (N/O) and Normally Closed (N/C). Quite a number of relays made have both types of switches built in. When the relay is energized the internal switch will move either to connect the switch in an N/O relay or to disconnect the switch in a N/C relay.

To better understand this, let's refer to the diagram printed on the relay itself. Most relays have standardized the naming convention of the terminals.

30, 87 and 87A are the switched parts of the relay. The Potter & Brumfield relay pictured has both N/O and N/C switches. 30 and 87A is the N/C connection, meaning that the default of the relay has 30 and 87 connected together, and when the relay is energized the connection between 30 and 87A will be opened, disconnecting the two. This is useful for having the relay switch things off.

30 and 87 is the N/O switch. When the relay is energized the connection will be closed, connecting the two. This is useful for having the relay turn things on. The relay can of course be used to divert power. Having 30 connected to 87A when the relay is off then transferring the connection to 87 when the relay is energized.

85 and 86 control the electromagnet. Either one can be the trigger. 85 connects to a positive 12 volt source and 86 is grounded. Only one of these will always be connected. Connecting the other one will trigger the electromagnet to energize the relay. So, for example, in a ground triggered relay 85 is connected to a positive 12 volt source, when the 86 terminal is grounded the relay will energize activating the internal switch. Or in a positive triggered relay 86 will be grounded, and when 85 gets a positive 12 volt current the relay will be energized.

The most common use for a relay is to switch things on and off. This is useful because the trigger switch can be extremely low voltage. It only needs 150 milliamps to trigger the electromagnet, while the relay switch itself can hold 30 or 40 amps. This is nice for switching on high load accessories like fog lamps and auxiliary fans because the high current wires from the battery can be routed through the relay to the accessory without having to pass through the switch making the wiring of the car safer.

Relays also be used to give accessories direct connection to the battery. By connecting the lights or horn directly to the battery they get a stronger more constant power supply so their performance is better and more consistent. I use 1 relay for each of my headlamps, brake lamps and signal lamps in the car so they are nice and bright.

Relays can also be used to invert a signal. In my MSD setup for example, the high speed timing retard of the Digital 6 box needs a positive 12v signal to activate. The MSD rpm activated switch however gives a ground. So for that setup, I use a ground triggered relay so when the rpm activated switch gives a ground to the relay (85 connected to postive, 86 switched ground), it sends a positive 12v signal to the MSD box (30 connected to postive being connected to 87 which is connected to the MSD box.)

What else can be done with relays is only limited to the users imagination. I've seen a setup where a relay triggered by the dome light dimmer switch was used so that when the car was parked the radio would keep playing when the engine was shut off until a few seconds after the door was shut. The two step rev limiter of car used for the launch control is activated by the hand brake on warning light. When the hand brake light is grounded is activates a relay that sends a positive 12 volt signal to the MSD box to activate the 2 step rev limit while the handbrake lever is up and release the 2 step limit when the hand brake lever is released. Basically any 'event' that has a switch going off can be used to automatically trigger another switched event by simply using a relay to connect the two. Using two relays in series can then be used to have two criteria for a switched event happening. You just have to be creative with it.

More thoughts RE: car clubs

With the advent of social networking like Facebook it has become a lot easier to form so called 'car clubs'. In fact, with the new groups function of Facebook you can even get added to one without having to join, apply or create a handle. Is that a good thing? I'm still on the fence on that so let me be a bit more in depth in discussing this.

Let's start with my own car clubbing record. I go back to 2004, when I found a lonely Yahoo! group online called 'Colt Lancers 1970 to 1979 models'. This was later renamed to 1stGenLancer and later spawned our forum/sort-of-car-club www.1stgenlancer.co.nr where I am forum Admin. The 1stGen forum is fairly quiet, mainly because we're really a small bunch to begin with. There's a handful of us here in the Philippine Islands, two guys in Malaysia, another handful scattered across Australia, a few in New Zealand and one guy in Germany (who owns 5 or 6 of the little beasts). There maybe a few lurkers from other similar old Mitsubishi forums in there (Sigma Galant, Japanese Nostalgic Car) because I see some familiar handles in the list but they have yet to introduce themselves there. Anyway, so it's a small and not a particular active group. The few of us here around Metro Manila have actually become friends and we do meet from time to time to catch up, but we are far from what you'd call a formal club, but the rare meets we do have are fun when they happen. (reminds me to schedule something soon since it's been a year since we've had a meet).

After 1stGen I became part of two clubs that are now dead. There was the Trooper Club, actually started by Isuzu Philippines for Trooper owners which died a natural death when the vehicle was phased out and later silenced even more due to a certain fuel injection problem (shhh.) Then, there was Club Old Skul Mitsu (OSM) which was pretty cool for a while, but money issues and bickering among it's officers and whatnot killed it as well. There was the Old-Schooler car club, this one even had a numbered sticker on it, my car was Old-schooler No. 350. This one seemed to have died a similar death as OSM.

Then there's Mitsu Lancer Ph that I'm still today a member of. I'm also supposed to be a 'crew captain' for Old-school and 1stgen Lancers but I have not really been active much in the last year or so. MLPh is fairly big and very organized. SEC registered makes it extra legit. There seem to be issues and haters once in a while, but the core officers of the club have done a good job in keeping it solid.

There's Grupo Toyota that I'm a perpetual lurker in because they have an awesome selling section with lots of goodies. This seems to be the Toyota version of MLPh and just about as good. I also lurk in the VWCP forum because of the selling section.

There are two other clubs that I won't mention where I have forums accounts in, but due the fact that I'm stingy and don't want to pay a membership fee, I don't have full access to the forums so I don't log in there that much so I don't know much of what goes on in them except that I'm not cool with groups like this where paying a fee if a requirement for full membership; no matter how small the fee is.

Up to this point, starting one of these groups was fairly difficult. Yahoo! groups are obsolete for the most part, forums are the in thing, so you'd have to start a forum from a hosting site, pay for it if you wanna be fancy or get a cheap free one like what we use in 1stGen. Then you wait for word to spread and people to sign up. But lately, over the last year or so there has been a trend of hosting the car club on Facebook instead of a forum. In this new form of car club you don't hide your identity behind handle, since it's connected to your personal facebook account your name appears, this is good in a way since quite a lot of people make stupid handles and this setup is less likely to have trouble makers.

According to the left sidebar of my Facebook account, I'm a member of 6 of them. One, created just today I think where I got automatically added, how that happens I have yet to find out. I think one of my friends just clicks on something then I'm part of it.

Now, what bothers me and what prompted me to write today rather than continuing my chore of cleaning up my workshop, was the description of this new club;

"Anything about the ********** Automobile regardless of model or year and club affiliation we are doing this so we can be recognized by ********** Motors as one united group and be able to get sponsorships for events, races and preservation of the ********* Automobile." 


What I did back there was omit the word 'Mitsubishi' in order to conceal the identity of the club I'm talking about because I copied that last bit right off their Facebook group thing before removing myself from it. (and Facebook is pretty cool, coz once you leave a group you can't be automatically added to it)

Anyway, that last bit of the description. I don't like that. It just reeks of what these things are about; getting recognition and sponsorship. Of course I'm not saying all Facebook based clubs are like that, some are pretty cool, fairly organized and have good camaraderie among their members (talking about you Lancer Boxtype Pilipinas) but this new thing.. I dunno yet but that description does not make me optimistic. And quite a few other I've seen are the same flavor.

The fact is, there is a lot of potential money to be made in these things. If a group is big enough sponsors at events can be pretty generous. I've seen free parts, motor oil, food, beer and quite a lot of other stuff. There are benefits like discounts at certain shops, sponsored events like a dyno testing day where I got to run my car on the chassis dyno for half price and cheap trackday events (that I've always managed to miss). It's very easy to see why you'd want to be part of that action. Money from simple membership dues or stickers can reach some pretty serious amounts. Remember the Old-Schooler club I mentioned earlier; I was member no. 350. Each membership/sticker costs 250 pesos. That's 85,500 pesos of 'club funds'

Of course there is a flip side to all the good things it brings. There will always be people who will take advantage of these situations to serve themselves. I remember back in 2008, prize money from Mitsubishi Motors Philippines for winners in a car show did not reach the actual winners who represented a club because someone else from the club acting as a liaison made off with the money. And I remember hearing some rumors about donated bottled water being sold to members. This is why I've always preached that money and sponsorship, despite being good for a club in a way, should be treated with the utmost care and delicadesa because those are the two things that can easily ruin a club. There are politics too, I've written about that before, but I would think that the politics is really motivated by the money making opportunities one would have once in position; just like in government then, and of course not to generalize; not all politicians are corrupt and not all car club officers are in it for the money. (I for one have never profited one cent from my positions in clubs.) But I can imagine, much like that Old-Schooler club with the some 85k worth of club funds, that there are some people who would want a slice of that fairly large pie.

The point that I'm trying to make is that we should all focus on what this hobby or lifestyle is about. It's about hanging out with like minded people, learning and developing your self into a better enthusiast and improving or preserving your car whatever your taste or passion might be. It's not about stickers, group names, chapters or positions. It's not about paying membership fees or seeing which group has more member than the other group. It's really stupid when the arguments are about 'territories' or where where to hang out, as f cars were not mobile and moving them from time to time was so difficult. It's no fun when it's like that and I make it a point not to be part of un-fun things.

While I'm on the subject, there are a few other things I'd like to touch on.

Not too long ago someone made a thread in a club asking if there was some kind of charity to help the less fortunate setup their cars, like that  Pimp my ride bullshit on MTV before. First of all, having a car to take you from point A to point B is in itself a luxury, more so is setting it up. Those of us who have managed to restore or setup our cars are no different from other people. We've had to work for what we have... well a few didn't but most did... so if you want a nice car you're going to have to work for it to. What has worth is worth paying for. Charities are for the hungry and homeless and the cute animals about to go extinct.

For bigger car clubs doing events, I've noticed that there is a trend of hosting events at bars. Call me old-school, but I miss the days when an event or EB meant standing around in a parking lot checking out cars. Sure, people will eventually gravitate to some nearby watering hole, but don't make that the official event. It's almost as if it's promoting drinking and driving.

This is what it should be about, gathering and lining up cars.. Because there's just something so cool about seeing them all lined up like that.

I have also removed all the stickers from my cars designating me as a member of a particular group. Because sometimes I like to drive everywhere like I only have 15 min. left to save the world. So, I overtake people quite often. I noticed that when my car was marked with a sticker and I pass another stickered car from another group the car I passed was likely to try and chase. I've also been tailgated and cut off a few times by members of 'rival' car clubs. It's been a few months since I've removed all stickers and I can say for sure that there is a difference. That's kind of an interesting observation isn't it?

Anyway. that's all my ranting for today. If I stepped on anyone's toes with what I've written, I don't really care.

My reactions and opinions re. 700k Box Type

Over the weekend, I saw an interesting post in a car club discussion. Something about an '86 model Box type Lancer being sold for 700,000 Pesos (US$16,300).

This is the car pictured in the online ad site;

And the description read as follows (copied from the actual ad) 

" MITSUBISHI LANCER BOXTYPE SL 1986 MODEL

101% FULLY RESTORED!!!
101% ALL ORIG PARTS AND ACCESSORIES
VERY VERY FRESH IN & OUT
VERY VERY COOL AIRCONDITION
BRAND NEW 13" ENKEI MAG WHEELS (JAPAN)
CHROME ENGINE AND UNDER CHASIS
VERY SELDOM USED
 *** INCLUDES BRAND NEW ORIGINAL SPARE PARTS - TAIL LIGHT ; CLEARANCE LIGHT ; MMC GRILLS ; ETC. ***
RESTORED BY ALEX CAR RESTORATION

FOR SERIOUS INQUIRY AND COLLECTORS ONLY ORFOR YOUR EYES ONLY...


ASKING PRICE : p700,000(NEG)" 

[p.s. people who write ads like that, in that color, high light and font, rank as an special kind of annoying in my opinion]

Now, there were all sorts of violent reactions in both the ad and in the discussion I read about the price and comparisons were made as to what else you could buy for 700k. Personally won't buy it, I'd instead get something else, or spend the money on my own project cars or maybe even splurge on 5384 Cheeseburger meals at Mc Donalds. 

I personally don't like the setup, There's no such thing as 101% restored because you really can't go 1% over the whole damn car, I don't care for the chromed bits, stock engines give me allergic reactions and the choice of wheels is about as garden variety as you can get. The ad does say the car has been sold and I would think for less than the asking price. But since this has caught my interested, focusing our discussion on the car for a moment, is 700k for this really that unreasonable? It's hard to tell from the just the ad and the quality from the pics, but let's pick it apart... 

Restoration; The minimum a show quality, full body restoration will cost at a professional shop is around 300k, if the car being restored is fairly fresh to begin with. The more work the car your starting with needs, the higher the cost of the restoration becomes. Big name shops like Alex Car Restoration, have built a good name for themselves over the years and tend to charge even more. 

Parts and Accessories; It's hard to quantify, since the ad. did not describe what parts and accessories needed replacing. Hypothetically it is possible to get all 'new old stock' original trim, parts and accessories for the car. The older the car, the harder it is to find parts and the more expensive they are. If budget was not an issue it'd be very easy to go over 100k just shopping for parts and accessories to make everything new. If this was to include replacing all the mechanical parts to new also, it would be very easy to add another 100k to the price. If you don't believe me, try canvassing for how much brand new original Mitsubishi parts cost. There are very few things that will go below 500 pesos, and the car has quite a number of things that would need replacing. So for the sake of this discussion, let's assume a significant number of trim, accessories, mechanical parts, service parts and other bits were replaced with brand new original Mitsubishi parts and the oils and fluids used are of the most expensive high quality type all amounting to 200k. [running total: 500k]

Aircon; Assuming, everything was replaced with brand new original parts (not mentioned in the ad. but let's assume) this is easily another 20k added to the cost. If crazy enough, you can also get a new original Sanden compressor for around 15k. [running total: 535k]

Chroming of parts; I'm not familiar with this, but I do remember that we once had a small section of bumper chromed and it cost 2.5k back in the late '90's. So if you were to go crazy chroming everything that you could possibly have plated, I would imagine that another 50 or 60k is not hard to spend. [running total: 585k] 

Wheels; As boring (in my opinion) as the wheel choice is, a set of brand new 13x8 Enkei Mesh wheels and a set of tires will easily add another 40k at least to the cost bringing our total up to 625k already. 

So, for the sake of discussion, all the work and parts on the car adds up to 625k, taken out of the 700k asking price of the seller makes the car worth 75k, which is incidentally how much I got my own Box Type Lancer for before. This does not include the cost of all the effort (pain and suffering) that you would have to go through if you were to undertake such a project. Put that way, 700k does not really seem unreasonable doesn't it? Of course, we freely made some assumptions about the quality of the car based on an ad. and picture, the car may very well not be a show quality full body restoration and the parts may not be all new and original as the ad would like us to believe, but my point is that hypothetically it's quite easy to spend that amount of money. of course in an ideal situation, if you were going to sell the car, you'd want to get your investment back, plus maybe a bit of profit. 

There are also quite a number of other things to spend on not mentioned in the add that could jack up the price even more. Vintage high performance parts like racing cams, multiple carburators can be worth their weight in gold. Rare alloy wheels could very well have their own discussion, and can easily cost 100k or more for just the wheels and some serious tires can go as high 40k for a set. I can imagine what as set of authentic Sakura Yayoi wheels wrapped in the finest Yokohama Advan rubber would cost. Vintage Steering wheels and bucket seats also cost some serious money these days. Try looking up the price for a Deep Corned Nardi Torino steering wheel. And could go on, but I think I've made my point. 

This I think is sort of a coming of age for the nostalgic Japanese car. In the same way that fully restored American Muscle Cars can now command prices in the 2 Million Peso range, something that would have been thought of as crazy 20 years ago. 

My opinion might be a bit biased of course, being that I've restored and modified my own car so I know more or less what it'd cost. Although I don't track what I've spent on my car in order to keep myself sane, but I can imagine that if all the parts of the engine setup were sold at their market value and add the cost of what it would cost to replicate my show quality full body restoration and add the value of what a fresh two door '79 Lancer would be today we could easily be over the 700k mark. In fact I maybe a bit more in the know as to the cost (but I don't really want to think about it) because I am trying to help a friend build sort of a clone of my car. 

Back to topic. Here in the Philippines, the Box Type Lancer can be thought of as the most common of all the Nostalgic Japanese car, with it being pretty much the only car on sale for the better part of 8 years. Since parts are starting to become scare and there is not really much of a reproduction parts industry supporting old Japanese cars, The current trend I see in restoration of these cars is to cannibalize (make Katay in the colloquial) so the number of fresh cars to choose from is getting smaller and smaller every year. There will come a time when there are no more corpses to cannibalize parts from so it may not be long before we start to laugh at our selves for thinking 700k for a fully restored Box Type was crazy.